So glad you bring this up, Steve. When I was a catechumen, some Charismatic friends laid hands on me in their home, praying for me to have a “double portion of speaking in tongues.” I silently prayed against it. It struck me funny that one person’s speaking-in-tongues is another person’s suspicion of prelest. On the other hand, a few years ago I visited a well-known traveling Orthodox wonder-working icon. On the drive home I developed a severe migraine headache. Although the migraine felled me for two days, that also struck me funny. How can I possibly know the meaning of these things?
Steve, my Brother from a different mother, you’ve described me and my experience thus far in my life that has ranged over the last almost seventy years from a very devout Roman Catholic alter boy to an adolescent hedonistic New Age mystic with not much to show for it to a “Born Again” believer in and imperfect follower of Jesus Christ who I sometimes call “my possibly imaginary Friend” and being a member at various times in the Evangelical Free Church with some close brushes through the years with Christian Charismatics and down right Pentecostals to Conservative Baptist to Presbyterian to Free Will Baptist to of late our little struggling Southern Baptist church. I’ve not yet wandered into any Orthodox churches , but who knows, I’m not dead yet. PTL, hallelujah & thank YOU, Jesus! 😇🙏✝️❤️
Thank you for your wisdom to be skeptical. When the charismatic movement hit our church I didn’t want to speak in tongues. (Your post came up as I was recalling that time.) When I read They Flew, a book about historic documented levitation, I understood what a good thing the Inquisition was testing these miracles. I highly recommend the book too.
Thanks, Steve. I've been Orthodox since birth, so I never was tempted to believe any of the so-called miracles of other religions. But, like you, I have a highly skeptical view of even some miracles reported by members of Orthodox churches. That's not to say that miracles don't or can't happen to Orthodox believers in current times. I can only say that the greatest miracle in my life is life itself.
I love this so much. "Be wise as serpents..." I feel like as you described the trajectory through various denominations I was watching a journey not unlike the one I experienced, and came to the very same skeptical conclusions. I am still very watchful, very skeptical, but also, full of joy at finding the True Faith. Isn't that miracle enough?
Oh, have experienced some real miracle stuff and have good trustworthy level headed friends who have had them happen to them, but this is over nearly 50 years. They are so sporadic and random and rare!
One of the great comforts of coming to the church was the stance on miracles. Meaning, sobriety was first and foremost. After an upbringing with a bunch of people experiencing "miracles" (some of them I believe) and talking about them, learning to stay in the mundane has been very helpful. One example of the past was the "Jesus Freaks" were all over the east coast when I was a kid. As a caveat to the statement I'm ready to make, I understand there were good, sincere people in it. But, in my experience, they should have used the word "creeps" instead of "freaks"
I remember that! There are some Orthodox (and just about every religion) stories similar that weave a series of "tragic" events into a providence of God. I think all human beings are fascinated by a "Rube Goldberg" event. HAHA!
This is spot on. I struggle with this a lot as when I came closer to Orthodoxy the first thing my Catholic family said was 'but the Eucharistic miracles'! Apparently atheist doctors from the vatican have proven it's always type AB blood from male cardiac tissue under extreme stress. Even if that was true and not bribed by the Vatican ...
I find it so fascinating how Eucharistic miracles aren't nearly as inflated in the Orthodox Church and viewed with caution/a sign of judgment in the very few accounts they are written about. (correct me if I'm wrong tho, I hope to ask more about this in person but I'm mostly going off of wrote knowledge)
I've found that there is no point (as GK says) arguing the validity of miracles (even if there is evidence to the contrary, which will be dismissed somehow) with someone who wants to believe in one either as a personal experience or as a "proof we're right". Even if they are real, all it proves is that God is merciful to all humanity and desires all to be saved. It's interesting that different Christian traditions (Catholic, Orthodox, Evangelical, Charismatic) have their own types of miracles that are more prevalent or identified with their traditions (although some do cross pollinate like "Charismatic Catholics").
So glad you bring this up, Steve. When I was a catechumen, some Charismatic friends laid hands on me in their home, praying for me to have a “double portion of speaking in tongues.” I silently prayed against it. It struck me funny that one person’s speaking-in-tongues is another person’s suspicion of prelest. On the other hand, a few years ago I visited a well-known traveling Orthodox wonder-working icon. On the drive home I developed a severe migraine headache. Although the migraine felled me for two days, that also struck me funny. How can I possibly know the meaning of these things?
Ironically I saw this post directly after looking up, "is cynicism a sin" after seeing a decal on my mom's water bottle declaring it to be so.
Naturally, this led me to be concerned about my own skeptical nature, lol.
But I recall something about being wise as serpents but gentle as doves so I'm going wit that.
I enjoyed your thoughts...thank you.
Steve, my Brother from a different mother, you’ve described me and my experience thus far in my life that has ranged over the last almost seventy years from a very devout Roman Catholic alter boy to an adolescent hedonistic New Age mystic with not much to show for it to a “Born Again” believer in and imperfect follower of Jesus Christ who I sometimes call “my possibly imaginary Friend” and being a member at various times in the Evangelical Free Church with some close brushes through the years with Christian Charismatics and down right Pentecostals to Conservative Baptist to Presbyterian to Free Will Baptist to of late our little struggling Southern Baptist church. I’ve not yet wandered into any Orthodox churches , but who knows, I’m not dead yet. PTL, hallelujah & thank YOU, Jesus! 😇🙏✝️❤️
Thank you for your wisdom to be skeptical. When the charismatic movement hit our church I didn’t want to speak in tongues. (Your post came up as I was recalling that time.) When I read They Flew, a book about historic documented levitation, I understood what a good thing the Inquisition was testing these miracles. I highly recommend the book too.
Thanks, Steve. I've been Orthodox since birth, so I never was tempted to believe any of the so-called miracles of other religions. But, like you, I have a highly skeptical view of even some miracles reported by members of Orthodox churches. That's not to say that miracles don't or can't happen to Orthodox believers in current times. I can only say that the greatest miracle in my life is life itself.
I love this so much. "Be wise as serpents..." I feel like as you described the trajectory through various denominations I was watching a journey not unlike the one I experienced, and came to the very same skeptical conclusions. I am still very watchful, very skeptical, but also, full of joy at finding the True Faith. Isn't that miracle enough?
This was helpful. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing.
Oh, have experienced some real miracle stuff and have good trustworthy level headed friends who have had them happen to them, but this is over nearly 50 years. They are so sporadic and random and rare!
One of the great comforts of coming to the church was the stance on miracles. Meaning, sobriety was first and foremost. After an upbringing with a bunch of people experiencing "miracles" (some of them I believe) and talking about them, learning to stay in the mundane has been very helpful. One example of the past was the "Jesus Freaks" were all over the east coast when I was a kid. As a caveat to the statement I'm ready to make, I understand there were good, sincere people in it. But, in my experience, they should have used the word "creeps" instead of "freaks"
The approach to see the fruit reminds me of the Maybe story.
https://matterco.co/the-maybe-story/
I remember that! There are some Orthodox (and just about every religion) stories similar that weave a series of "tragic" events into a providence of God. I think all human beings are fascinated by a "Rube Goldberg" event. HAHA!
This is spot on. I struggle with this a lot as when I came closer to Orthodoxy the first thing my Catholic family said was 'but the Eucharistic miracles'! Apparently atheist doctors from the vatican have proven it's always type AB blood from male cardiac tissue under extreme stress. Even if that was true and not bribed by the Vatican ...
I find it so fascinating how Eucharistic miracles aren't nearly as inflated in the Orthodox Church and viewed with caution/a sign of judgment in the very few accounts they are written about. (correct me if I'm wrong tho, I hope to ask more about this in person but I'm mostly going off of wrote knowledge)
Just an interesting article, but doesn't prove or disprove anything in the end. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12491371/
Thank you, I've never read the original sources, only the books compiling miracles I read as a kid.
I've found that there is no point (as GK says) arguing the validity of miracles (even if there is evidence to the contrary, which will be dismissed somehow) with someone who wants to believe in one either as a personal experience or as a "proof we're right". Even if they are real, all it proves is that God is merciful to all humanity and desires all to be saved. It's interesting that different Christian traditions (Catholic, Orthodox, Evangelical, Charismatic) have their own types of miracles that are more prevalent or identified with their traditions (although some do cross pollinate like "Charismatic Catholics").
You'll find any excuse to avoid communion with Rome...it's just like with Our Lord Himself, and now his vicars...
just sad.
Great article Steve. Thanks.
Great one, Steve.
Thanks Amigo. ⚜️🌐🕊️☦️⛪
Bible Belt Raise'n,
I know what yer say'n.....
.....faith hope love. Forgive, Judge not and God bless GKC! Blessed Feast of ALL SAINTS today.